ngfan14 2008-06-05 18:42:34

If you think about it Epsilon is new. I just put a 0 on it and guess what happened. It went down by .01 It's not really a lot but I"m only 1 user. Those flashes cannot keep those high scores for long.

davaca 2008-06-05 18:46:31

I assume it is because of the users who only watch the new movies, and vote 5 on all of them. only after the first rush is over, and the flash is of the frontpage and the more weekly top etc., that they can recieve the score they really deserve, because from that point forward only the "more expierienced" newgrounders vote on them.

I can't really see a solution, except, perhaps, blocking the all-time top score in the first month the submission hits newground. Something that is featured long on the front page is probably worthy of a place there anyway.

NegativeONE 2008-06-05 18:46:57

Voters get a little too excited. They say "Oh shit, this is great, it gets a 5". Then it hits the top 50 and a combination of voters' remorse, increased expectations, and counterculture switch on to knock back down the ones who appeared there prematurely. It's very unstable, but a few classics manage to cling. What can be done, really

KungFu-Gerbil 2008-06-05 18:51:37

I couldn't agree more.
Also note that users voting tendencies vote well on rubbish animations so that they can get their grubby little hands on another precious save point, in turn adding to the landfill of junk allowing half-decent attempts at animation to get dwindled out by the '30 minutes of effort' animations.

(^^)

Wonchop 2008-06-05 18:57:34

The downvoter's train gets delayed.

MRat 2008-06-05 19:06:49

I was never proud of scores anyway. Scores, weekly awards, position on lists. All of them have always meant nothing to me, since the day I started in Flash, nearly 6 years ago now.

What matters to me in the response in reviews, more than anything in terms of viewer response. Now, most reviewers are huge morons without a clue at all, and you can spot those right away in the first place, so I can ignore them. Every now and then, though, you get a real peer and colleague who knows his shit and will leave you a review that is really worth something.

The reason I animate is to tell my stories. That simple. It's not about pleasing people, it's about saying what I need to say the way I need to say it. This is why you'll never see some video game parody from me, or something just vying for cheap laughs and high scores. That stuff I just find pathetic.

Fun is a part of it all too, but I can't have fun making something like Metal Gear Awesome. That wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as it is if he was without swearing and video game characters.

All this to say, I agree with you. The scores mean nothing here these days.

BMack24 2008-06-05 19:07:38

my latest flash didn't get top 50 of all time or anything, but i wasn't quite as proud of the daily third i got as i might have been for many of the same reasons you listed.

Br1regna 2008-06-05 19:08:16

_ngfan14 says:
If you think about it Epsilon is new. I just put a 0 on it and guess what happened. It went down by .01 It's not really a lot but I"m only 1 user. Those flashes cannot keep those high scores for long.
_Epsilon is a good game, if flashes don't stay much longer than one week on top 5 is because of people that vote 0.
_Tell me what you think about, please

thedo12 2008-06-05 19:11:46

i completly agree, the top-50 submissions dosent mean the same as it did before.

before you had to be really good to get into the top - 50 now adays your submission just have to have refernece to pop-culture.

AltFfork 2008-06-05 19:11:55

I feel your pain. I noticed this a while back, too. Waterlollies has deserved its rightful place on that list, though. I have to agree with EvilEgg, because it will most likely stay this way....

RubberNinja 2008-06-05 19:14:32

This is something that's been going through my mind for a while. Newground users are very iffy with their voting. It's either a 0 or a 10. There's no serious criticm behind their comments. It's either senseless praise or senseless dislike.

The system needs to be refitted with new ways of percieving submissions. They shouldn't have changed the old rating system to a basic "1 - 10" system. It should have been changed to accomodate actual artistic and technical points in pieces (seperate specific ratings for games and movies).

For those of you that don't remember, the old voting system used stupid points like humour, violence, interactivity and such. This could have been implimented a LOT better.

Looking at my "Gamer Tonight" submissions, I get increasingly frustrated that they can make the top 50, when they're not exactly what I'd call my "best work". I'd rather see something I spent endless time and effort on achieve that rank then something I made in 5 - 6 days.

I totally agree with you on all your points. Something needs to be done to stop this 0 or 10/0 or 5 voting.

I remember when the NG voting was just brutal. I blame YouTube. People are too easily amused now.

Glumerlink 2008-06-05 19:27:34

i think more or less what's happening is that the ng crowd is growing, and with that you gain more and more people who vote high just because something is on the front page. but the moment that front page item leaves it is thrown off the high scores list and is replaced by something else just as easily. i've seen this with so many things, something is only as good as the individual users online. so we are getting to be more of a popularity thing and so people are feeling basically "it's the way to go" kinda like hot topic. not to say that these things aren't good, but when you get a massive support and user base you lose the niceties.

I've been watching newgrounds for years now, and it truly does feel less worthwhile, hell how abouts we just scrap this site and make a new one xD then we can have it back the way it used to be! For the artists!

mmm, please feed the artists.

-glumerlink-

Bearguy 2008-06-05 19:27:45

For the most part I completely agree with you. It is a shame that some videos on the Best of all time list only survive there for so long. I mean it is called, "ALL TIME" for a reason. It is not the "For about a week or so" list.

Sherbalex 2008-06-05 19:31:15

i think its good. people need to work harder now. the top 50 still means something, you just have to really beat the shit out of everyone else. and for those who dont work hard but still get way the hell up there time and time again.. they're just riding waves that will eventually crash, and they will go down with them >:) case and point: anyone heard from legendaryfraud lately??

FatalReactions 2008-06-05 19:34:20

Brawl Taunts isnt fucking funny at all

JACK-IN-THE-DARK 2008-06-05 19:36:49

my solution to this is to make al front page submissions invisible on the top 50 of all times, after they get out of front page, add something like a month, and them they can become visible again

Br1regna 2008-06-05 19:37:24

"Apples" was great. Maybe you undersore it because there is no fight scenes and no awsome characters. Isn't this "a matter of opinion" ?

Wurmy 2008-06-05 19:47:12

And all of those submission you listed will be surpassed by the older better submissions within 2-3 months :|

And More Brawl Taunts is waaay too overrated imo

Festering-Sack 2008-06-05 20:04:15

I think davaca is on the right track with an idea for a solution to this legitimate issue. He/she said, "I can't really see a solution, except, perhaps, blocking the all-time top score in the first month the submission hits newground."

I would like to know exactly what kind of data/statistics Newgrounds stores. Does it keep a vote tally for each of the six values on every submission (4000 - 5's, 7000 - 4's, etc.) or does it only keep track of the number of total votes? If it keeps a tally for each value then you could consider things like median and mode scores as significant factors in determining an All Time score. If it only keeps track of the total number of votes and a running average then I think the only solution that could offset the initial surge of high scores would be to apply a formula that manipulates/lowers the weight of votes made while the submission is on the front page (and a similar but more forgiving formula for submissions that make the daily top 5 list but don't ever hit the front page). It wouldn't be fair to entirely discount the voting made during a submission's stay on the front page.

Here's my idea: Have three scores for every submission that makes the front page or daily top 5. For simplicity's sake lets call them scores A, B and C. Score A would be the average score as it is currently calculated. Score B is the average score after a submission has left the front page (more on this in a bit). Score C is static and would be a snapshot of the score at the moment it leaves the front page or daily top 5 list. Score B is the one used to determine a submission's ranking on the Best All Time list. Once a submission enters the second score stage (B) then each individual vote should have significantly less power. I'd say have every vote in the second stage be worth a half point regardless of the voter's experience level. And to be fair and not completely discount votes made during front page time you would apply score C, the front page snapshot score, to score B in a statistically significant way. How much weight score C should have on score B, and exactly how it is applied (either a one time event or a continuous influence) is an issue that would require careful consideration.

I just want to clarify that I think this would only be a good idea for front page and top five submissions and all others should be scored using the current system which allows for mobility if a submission turns out to be a "buried treasure". I could go on but I think if you've read this far you probably feel like you've read enough!

The sad thing is that even if something like this was implemented it would not restore all the legitimately classic submissions that have long since been bumped off the top 50 list.

JohnnyUtah 2008-06-05 20:10:38

I'll just add that most stuff doesn't last on that list that people arent constantly voting for

second, this is how it is with the entire internet...have you seen the shit that's got 50 million views on youtube?

its all very depressing (and yes im tired of seeing tankmen 2 up there)